Excerpt of a 90 minute Interview with Ian Campbell of Blues Matters Magazine in the United Kingdom with The Lucky Losers.

Cathy Lemons

Well, Chris Burns, our keyboard player always says “you're doing it right.”

You don't think you're doing it right, but you're doing it right because you're independent and you're writing your own music and you're publishing your own songs and you have your own company and own an LLC.

And when you sign to labels, they can't get your royalties and you're doing it right and you're going out on the road.

You're doing it right.

And it feels like we're failing.

It always feels like we're failing but.

Phil Berkowitz

We're really not, but we're….

Cathy L.

Failing upward. (Laughing)

“Blues is the gold. It’s the earth. It’s truth. It’s the father or mother of all modern music. It’s a purely American art form, but anyone with a heartache can bring blues to life. It’s human, flawed, honest. It will live forever as long as Hollywood stays away from it.”

The Lucky Losers: San Francisco Station

The Lucky Losers – new album, Arrival (out November 7th on MoMojo Records distributed by MVD) from these six-time Independent Blues Award-winners. The Lucky Losers arrive big-time with their new album, with special guests including guitarists Danny Caron and Kid Andersen (who also produced). Arrival is The Lucky Losers’ sixth studio recording from the San Francisco--based group with producer and engineer Kid Andersen, who recently won a Grammy Award. The Lucky Losers, led by soulful vocalist Cathy Lemons and dazzling harmonica player and vocalist Phil Berkowitz, have been releasing high quality music now for a decade–most of it original, all of it with Andersen. Of the 11 all-original songs on Arrival, five of them were conceived by Cathy Lemons (co-writers: Kid Andersen & Chris Burns); and five by Phil Berkowitz (co-writers: Danny Caron & Chris Burns). The last tune is a duet, “Ain’t the Marrying Kind,” co-written by Lemons and Berkowitz. From the humorous funk of the opening track, “S-C-A-M,” which is about–of course–being scammed, to the ironic, blues rocker, “Sunday Stroller,” the train is rolling down the track at a fast pace, making stops at many stations: deep country blues, gospel blues, uptown blues, funk, 1960s soul, R&B, and ‘70s rock.                                  (The Lucky Losers / Photo by Eric Fingal)

More song highlights are the traditional blues of “I Believe Her (Because I Am Her)”-a fiercely resilient commentary on the sexual abuse of young women penned by Lemons. The ‘70s-styled stunner is the romantic “Play It From the Heart,” which urges the listener to dare to love. A Mavis Staples-styled soul tune, “Pull on the Rope,” is political. The beautifully crafted “Sorry Brother,” modelled after Allen Toussaint’s “Hercules,” features Berkowitz’s brilliant, horn-like harmonica. There is even a Stax-styled ballad, “Don’t Let It Slip Away” (with horns arranged by Grammy winner Mike Rinta), which shows the full power of Lemons’ captivating voice through every bending note.

Interview by MichaelLimnios                 Archive: The Lucky Losers, 2016 interview 

Photos by Eric Fingal                                     Special Thanks: Mark Pucci Media

How has music influenced your views of the world? What moment changed your music life the most?

Cathy Lemons: Well, I am a huge fan of Bob Dylan. He found a way through this incredible imagery to capture a setting, a time and a place, with interesting, and flawed characters. His “Masters of War” blew my mind. It’s a grand protest song FOR his generation. I became aware of that song in my twenties. I remember thinking to myself, “If I could only write a song like that! How did he do that!”

I am also a huge fan of The Staples Singers who were all deeply involved in the civil rights movement of the late ‘60’s. Steve Cropper and William Bell wrote “Slow Train.” I heard that song in a movie five years ago. So simple. Such universal imagery of the railroad, a symbol of expansion and the American west. Anyone can relate to it. My song “Pull on the Rope” was inspired by The Staples Singers and that song. It has call and response, harmony, a strong, emotional plea.

I am using the well and water as a spiritual symbol. I am asking everyone to “pull on the rope,” i.e. work together to fix a problem. We have a huge problem in America right now as Trump is deploying troops in our cities.

I saw a photo of this minister being pepper sprayed in the face. I.C.E. Brutal tactics against ordinary citizens. It’s just wrong. I am against brutality. I am against arresting people protesting peacefully. I am against liars. I don’t think our founding fathers would want a tyrant in the White House. I don’t want human beings ripped from their homes and made to disappear. Music has to play a role. If we don’t address this crisis, lawlessness, and enormous, obvious grift, we as musicians are not doing our jobs.

“If we don’t work together, we’re all gonna fail.

And there’ll be nothing left of this little wishing well.

The fires are burning; don’t look away.

I need your help now, just help me, let’s get there someday.”

As far as “that moment” it was watching Anson Funderburgh play blues guitar in a tiny club in Dallas. When I heard him, I knew that I wanted to sing blues. I was 23 years old. It hit me like a thunderbolt. A physical reaction. Thank you, Anson. I knew blues was my love.

Phil Berkowitz: Well, I think music puts into perspective all of life, whether to cry over something, or to shine it on. Music can show you what really matters.

 As far as that “moment,” it was being invited by my hero Gary Primich, the harmonica player, to get up on stage at Huey’s in mid-town Memphis to play harmonica. I didn’t have much experience, had just started my band, and I had no idea Gary would call me up. I was terrified because all the blues heavy weights like Kirk Fletcher & Jimmy Thackery were there. I summoned my courage, got up to play, and after I got off stage, I was just flying! My heart soared with happiness. It was so exciting. I knew that playing music was what I wanted to do. It all fell into place for me.

(The Lucky Losers / Photo by Eric Fingal)

How do you think that you have grown as an artist since you first started making music? What has remained the same about your music making process?

Cathy: I can’t believe I have finally become a true professional. You have to understand how many problems I had in my twenties. I had all this trauma in my background and I was just spinning out of control with drugs, medicating my anxiety. I started singing at 17 in an all-male band. I always had confidence as a singer, but as a person, I had zero. I was just so reckless with my gift and frankly, my life. I had to really struggle to get my gift out. I became, as the years passed and after playing hundreds of shows, stubborn and determined that the audience 1) could hear me over the band 2) could connect with me by understanding my words.

And then there is the mechanics of being a touring pro. Now I can set up a full PA, wire it, set-up all the mics. I can insist on getting the sound I want simply because I want to experience the pleasure of singing. I am highly organized. I learned how to set up an effective set list, how to describe each song to the hired musicians, using musical terms, how to set up the band on stage, how to communicate quickly to a sound tech what is needed, what to say on the mic to the audience, how to pace the show, even how to smile at an audience. I mean, you don’t want to scare them!

I have had to take voice lessons with Phil. And that was invaluable for both us. Understanding physically what is happening as you sing, how important physical strength is, the breath, etc.

I sing best with a purpose in the lyrics. I love to make up lyrics on the vamp, where you hang on the 1, and embellish the lyrics, so I can communicate my personal messages to the audience. I use the vamp to tie the full story together and get the emotional point across.  I want to be a messenger. I’m older now. I have the experience in my life to help people through my music.

What has remained the same is my honest, emotional living inside the songs.

Phil: I have been able to let my true self and personality come shining through more and more. Music brought me out of my shell. I challenge myself. My music is a work in progress. I know my songwriting has improved in the last 10 years. My work with Cathy Lemons, Danny Caron, and Chris Burns has inspired me.

Also, I have worked with the vocal coach Raz Kennedy in Berkeley both individually and with Cathy. He’s just a great teacher. He helped me so much.

I have written about 40 songs. Most of those have been published. But I’m a better songwriter because I am bringing my talent for poetry into the mix.

“He was a Sunday Stroller

Big high roller ….

Thought he has it all in the hardest way…

Now he’s in a bind!

What is left behind

Learning the truth while playing the game.”

Also, you really grow through touring. Oh my God. You have to perform in an alien environment in front of complete strangers all over the country. That will straighten you out (laughing).

Cathy and I have completed about 30 tours since 2015. I have had to step it up. Taking on that band leader role, well, it requires real discipline. I have to be my better self.

What has remained the same is my personality. I was always theatrical; I always had flair. But now I have more confidence with that flair. I’ve been able to overcome certain flaws as a result of being more aware of myself.  The songs I have written have helped me to overcome the flaws I could not see. My poetry actually helps me see clearly.

(The Lucky Losers / Photo by Eric Fingal)

Currently you’ve one release titled “Arrival” by MoMojo Records. How did that relationship come about? Do you have any interesting stories about the making of the new album?

Cathy: Well, it was me who found MoMojo. I looked at the radio charts, and saw what labels were doing well for their artists. Nola Blue was right up there with Alligator and Forty- Below.

I organized our songs on Dropbox, with photos, album credits, artwork, and I submitted our finished album. Debra Clark of MoMojo loved “Arrival.” We were about to leave on a month’s long tour, so that helped. We are hard-working and well organized. Phil books our tours. We are self-starters. If the label pushes, I’ll push harder.

“Arrival” which has 11 original songs (split in half between Phil & I as songwriters) took two years to create. Phil works with the brilliant guitar player, Danny Caron. They had 4 great songs. I heard the demo of “Sunday Stroller” and knew it was a hit. I just push Phil to finish his songs. He has all these lyrics all over the house on Post-it notes. I make him type up his lyrics. I yell at him (laughing.)

When I booked the studio time with Kid Andersen in February of 2025, I went to work and started looking up the music I wanted. I had the lyrics.  

Making albums is like compiling short stories together. I usually write lyrics in the van while on tour. I wanted “Arrival” to have stone blues, combined with soul. The idea is we’re moving, arriving. On our way.

We are not afraid of taking risks. We are not going to allow anyone to stick us in box – a boring blues shuffle box, where everything has been done before, where you can never measure up to someone as great as B.B. King. Why not be yourself? If you are going to fail, fail as yourself.

I was molested as a child and I finally created lyrics that can touch on that subject without being – well, a victim. I was a smart, tough little kid and I tricked my molester. It’s an empowering song. It’s a #metoo song for all of us women.

This is a personal album. It’s focused. We have arrived. 

Phil: One funny story is when we went to extremes to create the one duet, “Ain’t the Marrying Kind”. It was just Cathy, Kid, and myself at the tail end of the recording process. So we all clapped our hands in unison and stamped our feet to create the back beat. We needed a drum. But we had no drummer, so we made one. It was pretty funny. The room shook.

Another good story is when we had to do a make-up session because some of the tracks didn’t cut the mustard. So, I was overjoyed to bring in my mentor, guitar player, Danny Caron to play on songs such as “My Father’s Song” and “Sunday Stroller,” which we wrote together. That’s the first time I got to work with Danny since my 2009 album, “All Night Party”.

We brought in the A-team. We used Endre Tarczy on bass and Paul Revelli on drums for those two songs. It was effortless, but at the same time, they all came in so prepared.

Before that A-team session, I had a dream where I was living in a gymnasium. I decided to take the bull by the horns and started singing that Commodores song, “Sail On,” and a bunch of people joined me as I marched through the gymnasium.

What are some of the most important lessons you have learned from your experience in the music paths?

Cathy: Don’t listen to anyone but your soul. Don’t let anybody stop you. Don’t let anyone discourage you. And ladies, remember, if a musician does not work out, there are 20 better ones waiting to work with you in the wings.

And my greatest advice is to copyright your music and publish it through your own publishing company.

Write! So, what if somebody doesn’t get it, because somebody WILL. And music lives FOREVER. My favorite piano composer is Erik Satie. Satie was laughed at by the critics of the late 1800’s. He was the father of modern music, and the critics wanted sentimental puff. He was impoverished his entire life because he refused to write a note he didn’t love. He carried on. Millions love his music today. Satie died in 1924.  He had never even been to a doctor.  He lived in a hovel. But he made beautiful music that will live forever.

Phil: My lessons have to do with learning humility. Making a record is a collaboration. It’s the same when you tour. You have to think in terms of the greater good. You have to learn how to cooperate and let go of your ego.

I have also had to humble myself because of Kid being such a huge presence in the studio. Kid Andersen coaches me in my harmonica lines and has since our first record in 2015. I play some lines, and then he tailors them a bit or even sings a new idea. I compromise. The result is some inventive stuff. 

How can a band/musician truly turn the blues into a commercial and popular genre of music for today's audience?

Cathy: By not trying to. A person composes from their experience, from their heart. Don’t think. Do. “Don’t try.” That’s a Charles Bukowski quote.  Look, A.I can make music. But it’s not interesting. Why? Because art is mysterious. And those Nashville companies using A.I. are pumping out crap. In fact, I would argue that most of the popular stuff you hear is pure crap. Blues and Americana are different. Be different. Write songs from your life.

Phil: Stop following the same formulas that everyone else uses within blues. The thing that turned the kids off to blues is living in the past. They don’t want to hear about living on a plantation in Mississippi. That depresses them. Find a way to reach these young people through your honest reflections about NOW.

Find your own voice and those 10k hours you put in listening and playing blues will come full circle when you create something new. The sooner you realize your full potential while realizing your true self, the more capable you will be to blaze your own trail. Don’t go by anybody else’s dictums. You know your own potential. It will come out if you let it.

How does your hometown (San Francisco) affect your music? You’ve worked in many different settings, from clubs and studios to open-air festivals and bars. How do you navigate between these different worlds?

Cathy: Well haven’t you heard? They wrecked my town!  “They came in with fists high and sold us away” (From my song “They Wrecked My Town.”). San Francisco wanted to be compassionate so they made shop-lifting essentially a crime that can’t be prosecuted. Stores closed. Everywhere. They have crazy laws that prevent property owners from throwing squatters out of their homes or apartments. So, people are angry. They want to have “harm reduction” but in so doing have created a huge population of homeless addicts that trash the community. It’s terribly sad. And it’s not kind. When you see a poor, tattered crazy man talking to himself on the street, well, that’s not kind. He is not receiving care. I ask them; I talk to them. I say, “Has anyone tried to help you with services?” The answer is always, “No.”

It's all songwriting fodder.

When I was an addict, I went to jail. And guess what? It woke me up. I told myself “I will never come back here.” I straightened up. I fought my way off the streets, into college, into paying jobs. Back into music.

Watching my beautiful city change like this has given me plenty to write about. I can protest through my songs.

It’s not just San Francisco where these rich landlords come in and start buying up all the rental property or buying up chain stores that devastate small businesses, it's everywhere, even Lincoln, Nebraska. They are wrecking our towns. It’s either greed or extremes.

I have sung in great theaters, in beer vat cages (literally), I have sung at festivals, I have sung to 3 people on a sidewalk, I have sung to cheering crowds in popular bars. Guess what? It’s the same. Each time you step out to sing you try to reach someone.

Phil: Whatever gig you happen to be playing, you’re playing to people. Real people. You play to the room, and that requires dynamics and recognizing that people are different.

As far as San Francisco goes, the city has had a deep impact on my identity. It’s a liberal city. I am basically a liberal, but only to a point. I moved to the city in 1992, which was the height of the grunge movement. But there was also great blues everywhere. Now, many of the clubs have closed. Big tech moved in and dumped culture.

It's always been a beautiful place. A rather magical place, with incredible musicians like GG Amos, Joe Kyle, our guitar player Simon Govan Smith, Cathy. The Saloon employs most of steadily.

Plus, we have Steve Freund in the greater Bay Area, Ian Lamson, Kid Andersen, Rick Estrin, Elvin Bishop, Lydia Pense, Terri Odabi, Tia Carroll. You better up your game to work.

Why is it important that we preserve and spread the blues? What is the role of music in today’s society?                                 (The Lucky Losers / Photo by Eric Fingal)

Cathy: Blues is the gold. It’s the earth. It’s truth. It’s the father or mother of all modern music. It’s a purely American art form, but anyone with a heartache can bring blues to life. It’s human, flawed, honest. It will live forever as long as Hollywood stays away from it.

The role of music is to reflect back to the listener what they see and feel in life as true. And if you are a great writer, you might just get them to say “Yes! That’s what’s going on here and I don’t like it.”  Great music brings people together. It wakes them up. It can even get them out to march on the streets for a better world.

I think we will always have blues poets. And we have some wonderful new talents, right now, writing new songs, like DK Harrell. He’s really good! Is he B.B.? Not yet - but he might be if he stops listening to other people and writes from his own life.

Phil: Blues has been in the American bloodstream for a very long time. Blues isn’t going away. It’s great, poignant music. I am so proud to preserve this music. And I am drawing from a deep, old tradition.

The role of music in our society is to bring the learned traditions back to life with a modern perspective in the 21’st century. We are making our own history, right now. The role of music has always been to open doors, to get people to question. And to say, “Hey look over here! Look at what’s going on!”

The Lucky Losers play blues without borders

San Francisco duo release their 6th album, 'Arrival'

By j. poet

Nov 4, 2025

INDIE BLUES Vocalist Cathy Lemons and singer/harmonica player Phil Berkowitz form the core of Lucky Losers. (Photo by Eric Fingal)

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The Lucky Losers just got back to San Francisco after a long national tour. The duo—vocalist Cathy Lemons, and singer and harmonica player Phil Berkowitz—said they were glad to be home, but they didn’t have a lot of time to rest.

“We’re releasing our new album, Arrival, in a couple of days,” Lemons said. “We book and manage ourselves, so putting a record out requires a lot of work. We have to hire a radio publicist and a press publicist, arrange for the distribution and manufacture of the CDs, and get things set up on the streaming services. It’s all got to be perfect.”

Arrival is the duo’s sixth collection, and follows in the footsteps of their 2020 set Godless Land, winner of five Independent Blues Awards, including Best Blues/R&B Soul CD. It’s a fitting award, since their arrangements draw on R&B, soul, gospel, rock, funk and downhome blues.

They recorded Arrival at Greaseland Studios with members of their touring band—Chris Burns on keys, Simon Smith on lead guitar—along with some special guests and multi-instrumentalist and producer Kid Andersen (Rick Estrin & the Nightcats, Tommy Castro).

“We’re more focused on classic soul and blues this time around,” Berkowitz said. “We even have some ’70s pop and rock’n’roll.” Lemons agreed and said they also included “Ain’t the Marrying Kind,” an acoustic outing, with percussion supplied by stomping feet and hand clapping.

“I came up with that song at the end of the recording sessions,” Lemons said. “I had the idea of us having a public argument, kind of like in Jackie Gleason’s The Honeymooners. My mother was married four times and my sister was married six times, so I’m terrified of marriage, but it’s a funny song.

“We didn’t have a drummer in the studio,” Lemons continued. “Kid [Andersen] had us stomp on the floor, and we recorded it with some reverberation. We all clapped the back beat together and Kid played his 12-string guitar with a Mississippi blues sound, giving it a bit of a John Lee Hooker vibe.”

Lemons and Andersen also collaborated on “S-C-A-M,” an R&B number. The chorus is chanted by the ensemble, accented by a horn section, with Lemons singing about the ways folks can get bilked out of their cash, by everyone from local thieves to government officials.

There’s a hint of gospel in “Pull on The Rope.” Burns plays sustained notes on the organ to open the tune, with Lemons adding sanctified melismas to her vocal lines. It’s a metaphorical description of the search for salvation, with a call-and-response chorus and a short, soulful harmonica solo by Berkowitz. 

Berkowitz also shines on “I Believe Her,” a slow, traditional blues. His keening harp accents intensify Lemons’ vocal, as she expresses the difficulty women face when calling out an abusive relationship to family and friends.

This is the sixth album the duo has made with Andersen. They said they loved his approach to producing and arranging. “He has a grand vision and, if you trust him and give up on your ego, he’ll bring the songs to life,” Lemons said.

“He’s got a great sense of pitch, as do I, so between the three of us we’ve never come up with a bum note on any record,” Lemons continued. “He has a library of thousands of roots and blues songs in his mind. His references are identical to ours, so we can count on him to understand what we’re going for. He helped us lean into the sound of early ’70s soul.”

Although they’ve been making records and playing together for 11 years, Berkowitz said he believed Arrival was a fitting title for the duo’s latest offering. “I imagined us arriving on a train or stage coach,” he said. “Then I thought, ‘Just because you’ve arrived in one spot along your way, it doesn’t mean you’ve got time to rest on your laurels. It’s a continuum.’

“You’ve arrived many times in your life,” he added. “Sometimes you’re greeted with flying colors, sometimes with: ‘What took you so long?’ A lot of effort goes into arriving, creatively and physically. That’s why we put out albums. Each one is a starting point to the next destination.”

‘Arrival’ will be released by MoMojo Records on Friday, Nov. 7.